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Oh Oh look out !!

posted Apr 30, 2014 22:19:12 by dino0000007
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50 replies
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ChibsonsandMore said May 07, 2014 02:12:53
Well they said that it had a business card in the package. Aliexpress wouldn't put a business card in there, it had to be a specific seller or some sort.
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filthypit said May 07, 2014 15:49:06
Yes, NJ is where the container ships offload.
I know a few ppl w/ surf shops who have surfboards MIC and they go there to get their containers when they come in.

Interesting note: virtually everyone has said that the teamsters always shake them down (for a handful of boards - per container) before they'll lift a finger unloading their cargo... guess that's the cost of doing business these days


It kind'a sounds like they nabbed a container???

a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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ChinaGuitar Sceptic said May 07, 2014 22:33:42
Allegedly these guitars were all from one seller to multiple individual buyers but nobody can provide me proof, just a wink a nod and lots of speculation. However finding out that it was not a single buyer is why I finally went with covering the story on my channel today. Previously I had been told a container, which usually means a single shipment from one supplier to one buyer!

Cathy and GM are both 'requested' removal from MW's sellers list on here and both are tight lipped with me about why. Then I have 2 other sellers say it's because of the NJ situation. However they didn't go so far as to confirm that either C-OEM or GM had guitars in the particular shipment. Surely the inclusion of either on this forum list would not mean THAT many orders in one go for either seller???? Who knows? Maybe!

To me this all smacks of cloak and dagger, back handers and blind eyes being conveniently un-turned once in a while to restore political confidence that Uncle Sam will not tolerate unsolicited thumbs of the nose in his direction or to 'good old boys' trading big American brand names. While really the political undercurrent must be focused on the Chinese economic vitality to the USA these days.

Only time will tell, but 185 guitars is a heck of a big bonfire to make a political point! I intuitively sense a change in the air.
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filthypit said May 08, 2014 00:13:40
Well, how many 'china narcotic/firearm/prostitution/etc sceptic' website/forums do you know of?


a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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MichaelWamback said May 08, 2014 00:19:56
Then again, how many of these guitars are landing on the shore each and every day? This could be a big dent, or an insignificant amount of seizure just for show.

I think it's also telling that a number of other guitars have passed through NY since with no problem. Granted, they had different logos - but I'm willing to bet the only way they would know for sure would be to open the box. So if the boxes weren't opened and inspected, then we know they were rubber stamped at entry.
The two most important things to remember in life: "The only time it's acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn." "If you want to work with clowns, join a circus."
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David Ledbetter said May 08, 2014 00:57:10
There's quite a bit of sellers names being thrown around. Frankly, I think you ought to delete all the sellers info completely from this site and any comments made on your YouTube. You are actually providing the feds a direct connection to sellers. Hate to say it but let people figure it out on their own. Sure, its a nice thing to do. But you may very well be guiding feds straight to the sellers. No wonder they are running. Of course, they are on a website, but there is no direct connection between me and that website that a fed can obtain. Here, not the case. I won't identify ANY seller on the net. Privately, possibly. Just my two cents. All kinds of opinions out there I.m sure...
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filthypit said May 08, 2014 01:04:46
Loose lips sink ships

Soon everyone will have no other option but buy the crappy guitars Fender, Gibson, et al are selling
instead of buying our crap directly frm PRC factories...

Its our Constitutional right to choose!
FREEDOM OF CHOICE ~ much more than just a DEVO song!
You can have my crappy counterfeit chinese guitar when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!!!


ex: Guild/Gretsch quality went right-straight down-the-toilet after Fender bought 'em
Squier's are absolute guitar-bage




[Last edited May 08, 2014 01:10:24]
a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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MichaelWamback said May 08, 2014 04:46:29
David - not sure I agree with you. I'm sure the Feds are well aware of AliExpress and DHGate. And all we have on our list is a link to the stores that are on there. There is actually no addresses or shipping information to link the specific sellers to the shipment. It's just the same basic info that they could (and I'm sure have) gleaned themselves off the websites.

CGS is right - not the first time there has been a "crackdown" so to speak. The sellers will go underground for a month or two, the Feds will have their press opportunity and business will go back to normal. It's basically just a big game. Not unlike the war on drugs, the Feds just don't have the resources to police each and every small package coming into the country. So they do a sweep periodically and highly publicize it. The hope is that it will discourage some of the sellers, and some of the buyers.

It's not unlike the war of drugs. You see big news stories about the million dollar busts, but we know it's probably less than 1% of the drugs flowing into the country.
The two most important things to remember in life: "The only time it's acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn." "If you want to work with clowns, join a circus."
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SteveTebble said May 08, 2014 08:55:05
There was a recent post on the Chibson Chinese Guitar Discussion Group on Facebook, from someone who knows one of the employees at the New York/New Jersey facility. He says they see 3-400 of these things go past them in each 10-hour shift - in a place that operates 24/7 except for holidays. So just think what a small percentage of the total that 180 represents.

He also said that if your guitar is confiscated you are "flagged" for 60 days so don't order the next one too quickly. And if your guitar is "stopped" "Inspected" and released with a fee, your name is also added to the flagged system and they will look for you over the next 60 days.
[Last edited May 08, 2014 08:56:28]
God give me patience ... but I want it NOW!!
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David Ledbetter said May 14, 2014 19:52:52
While we all agree that buying these guitars is not illegal, selling them is..., well, you know the answer. So let me ask you? Do you post the names and locations where you download your music? Didn't think so. Because it isn't illegal to download music but only to upload it. Now I'm not going to start an argument or discussion on that here, but the principle is the same. There's just no need to be posting information on EXACTLY where and whom is selling. If you dont understand that this whole purchase is a buyer beware, well, then you deserve what you get and really have NO need to complain.
Like I said, its just my opinion, but I certainly think some tact and discretion should be involved when posting peoples names on the internet. Did anyone ask the sellers if they could post their stores and names? If so, and you got permission, then all I say is then mute. you win. But if you didn't, maybe folks should think about that. Really ponder it.
BTW, one of the stores you have listed in your do not buy from list (lowest rating), I have personally had 3 perfect transactions with near perfect product received. So maybe the list isn't as accurate as you think it is. And why then, is it posted?
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ChibsonsandMore said May 14, 2014 23:53:49
The list is there as a complilation of submitted reviews here on the forums. You're exactly right David, people really only "post" if they're unhappy about something. It's why bad feedback is so much more common than good feedback.

You've basically answered your question there though, did you post positive reviews of them or are you keeping the seller a guarded secret for yourself? If it's the latter, then it explains why those bad reviews were enough to put the seller on the D-List.

Personally, I've had a seller ask me to basically advertise for them through youtube videos. I kindly told them that I wouldn't help support them in that fashion at all.
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FarNiente FarNiente said May 15, 2014 01:02:48
"You're exactly right David, people really only "post" if they're unhappy about something."

Uh not me dude. I post when I get good product and service. Hell, even when my deal with GM tubed because he sent me a guitar with a bad neck I STILL gave him a positive review because he was more than fair in returning my money for both shipping and the guitar. You can't make a blanket statement like that. Another point is, with ALL reviews, it's important to read between the lines. When analyzing reviews for any product or service, you have to use your critical thinking skills. What I try to do is get into the mind of the person who is posting the review. Criticism is best understood when one seeks to understand the spirit of the person doing the criticizing. It's not hard to do. It just takes practice.
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MichaelWamback said May 15, 2014 07:40:31
I actually try and "filter" all of the reviews when I consider the seller. My main concern is to balance the criticism of the sellers against fair and realistic expectations. Things like fretwork, blemishes and so forth are a part of the Chibson charm, and won't result in a seller dropping down the list. It's also why I insist on a proper review with photos - particularly if there are issues with the guitars.

I also look at customer service. If a seller sends a guitar that arrives with major issues, such as a broken neck, then you expect decent communication with the buyer and an honest effort to make things right. It's also why I've started posting links to negative reviews, so that members can read them for themselves and judge accordingly.

What does drop a seller is when they deliver a guitar with major problems, then refuse to cooperate with the buyer to address the problems.

As for permission from the seller to post a review - not necessary. Consider "Yelp" as an example. Reviews of products are no more than freedom of speech, and tracking feedback is the same. And we have removed sellers from the list when they have specifically requested it. And nobody on this forum is "outing" anyone - last time I checked, they were openly doing business on the internet for all the world to see.

No doubt it's pissed off a seller or two who have really dropped the ball - but I'm also sure it has generated business for sellers who have given good service.

I've repeatedly said that it isn't a fool-proof system, just the best I can come up with. And yes, it's simply an effort to compile reviews from members of this forum into one place.

As for a specific seller delivering quality guitars to you - good for you. You are lucky. It's the guy who got one with the neck snapped in half that I'm concerned with, and how the seller handled that situation. We all now that this thing can and will happen - regardless of the seller you choose. I'm really concerned with how a particular seller will handle that type of situation, when something tragically goes wrong. Some really take steps above and beyond to make things right - while others will try and just take the money and run. We deserve to know which is which.
The two most important things to remember in life: "The only time it's acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn." "If you want to work with clowns, join a circus."
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TrickyRicky said May 15, 2014 10:06:32
Also, sellers are discussed openly on the alibaba.com (parent of aliexpress.com) forums.
"For some, the safest thing is to steer clear of these guitars."
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GrandSpector said May 15, 2014 10:13:52
this is also interesting, note the date when it came into effect: Trademark Law
[Last edited May 15, 2014 10:14:12]
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